students, they can't be successful in the long run. this is part of c-span's 50 capitals tour. announcer: on >> this is no ordinary election. >> this is volatile. >> i think our best days are ahead. i want texas to lead this country. >> together, we will keep texas right, bright red. >> tonight, senator ted cruz and congressman beto o'rourke face off. >> in the past year and a half we've been delivering real results.

>> there are places that have been written off. people that have been taken for granted. >> from the dallas morning news and smu. >> god bless texas. >> live from the smu campus in allas. >> welcome to the first texas senate debate. i'm julie from nbc 5. >> here are the rules for tonight's 60 minute debate. once a question is asked, the candidate will have 90 seconds to answer. his opponent will have 60 seconds for a response, and the then the candidate will have another 30 seconds for rebuttal. >> we've asked the audience not to applaud and react during the debate. >> that is, except for now, as we welcome the candidates. [applause]

>> hold on. republican incumbent, ted cruz. representative beto o'rourke. >> with that gentlemen, let's begin. congress o'rourke, you drew the first question. we're going to start with you. you said last week representative a you want citizenship for dreamers today. yet others would apply to come to america continue to wait. senator cruz said he doesn't support path to citizenship for dreamers which means they can be sent back to a country they've never known. who's right, representative? rep. o'rourke: let me say thank you to nbc 5 to the dallas morning news to smu and the people of dallas for having us here at this debate tonight. let me thank senator ted cruz for participating in this. i'm looking forward to the discussion. my wife, amy and i were in booker, texas.

one of the reddest communities in the state. we were surprised as we were going door to door to hear in the number one concern from people in that community was the fate of dreamers. there are nearly 200,000 in the state of texas. the salutatorian had just been deported to his country of origin. everyone there was concerned about his welfare. they're concerned about the fact that he just been sent back to a country who's language he didn't speak, where he no longer had family connections, where if he was successful against those long odds he'd be successful there and not here for texas. there's no better people than those of us here in this state, republicans and democrats and independents alike. the defining immigrant experience to rewrite our immigration laws in our own image. and to ensure that we begin by freeing dreamers from the fear of deportation by making them u.s. citizens so they can contribute to their full potential to the success not just of themselves and their

families, but to this country. the economists who've studied it said we are would hundreds of billions of dollars if we deport them. we'll gain hundreds of billions to the positive if we keep them here. senator cruz has promised to deport each and every single dreamer. that cannot be the way that texas leads on this important issue. senator cruz? sen. cruz: good evening and welcome. this issue presents a stark divide between congressman o'rourke and me. my views on immigration are simple. and i have summed them up many times and just four words. legal, good. illegal, bad. i think the vast majority of texans agree with that. when it comes to immigration, we need to do everything humanly possible to secure the border. that means building a wall, that means technology, that means infrastructure, that means boots on the ground. we can do all of that at the same time a we are welcoming and celebrating legal immigrants. there's a right way to come in this country. you wait in line, you follow the rules like my father did in 1957. when he came from cuba, he fled

oppression and he came to texas. he came seeking freedom. we're a state and we're a nation built by immigrants. but it's striking that congressman o'rourke over and ver and over again his focus seems to be on fighting for illegal immigrant and forgetting the million of americans -- americans are dreamers also. and granting u.s. citizenship to 12 million people who are here illegally i think is a serious mistake. i think congressman o'rourke is out of step with texas. >> representative? rep. o'rourke: i'll tell you about being out of step with texas. senator cruz sponsored legislation have this country build 2000-mile wall at a cost of $30 billion. and that wall will not be built on the international border between united states and mexico. it will be built on someone's farm, someone's ranch, someone's property, using the power of eminent domain to take their property at a time of record security. senator cornyn and i introduced

legislation that would invest in our ports of entry with a vast majority of everyone and everything that comes into this country first crosses. knowing who and what come in here makes us safer. it allows us to lead on the issue of immigration reform. >> representative, quick follow-up for you. you've addressed the dreamers. do you think anyone undocumented living here should have a path to citizenship? rep. o'rourke: there are millions of people in this country who are working the toughest jobs. we were in roscoe at a cotton gin with 24 jobs. every single one of them worked by someone who can do this country. they were willing to do that work. that's the story of texas and of this country. we need it bring people out of the shadows, allow them to get right by law. and yes, there should be an earned path to citizenship. the alternative, as senator cruz has proposed, is to deport 11 million people from this country. imagine the cost, the imagine the stain on our conscious going forward for the generations who

look back at this moment. >> representative, that is your time. thank you. >> senator cruz, this question is to you. this month in dallas, officer amber geiger shot a black man in his own apartment. why did you caution representative o'rourke and others not to jump to conclusions in this case, when the texas rangers said she committed manslaughter? sen. cruz: what happened to mr. john was horrific. nobody should be shot and killed in their home. it was tragic. the officer as i understand it, has contended it was a tragic mistake. it was a case she thought she was in her own apartment. she thought he was an intruder. right now today, i don't know what happened that evening. congressman o'rourke doesn't know what happened. but he immediately called for firing the officer. i think that's a mistake. look, we have a criminal justice system, a system that will determine what happened that night.

if she violated the law and did that intentionally, she'll face the consequences. but before hearing the evidence, congressman o'rourke is ready to convict her. ready to fire her. it's a troubled pattern. over and over again congressman o'rourke when faced with an issue about police and law enforcement, he sides against the police. in the united states congress he voted against allowing funds to go to body armor for sheriffs. when it comes to immigration and customs enforcement, he's opening to abolishing that law enforcement agency. just this week, congressman o'rourke described law enforcement, described police officers as modern day jim crow. et me say something. i have gotten to know police officers all across this state. that is offensive. just today, fort worth is burying officer garrett hall with his wife and two kids, who was shot in the head risking his life. here today, officer brian

graham, an arlington swat officer was shot in the head. he is here in everyday police officers risk their lives for us. officer graham is standing there. his two kids. he took a bullet in the head to rotect us. and let me say right now i think it's offensive to call police officers modern day jim crow. that is not texas. >> that's your time. please, audience. please. no applause. rep. o'rourke: what senator cruz said is simply untrue. i did not call police officers modern day jim crow. and i as well senator cruz and everyone here mourn the passing of the officer in fort worth. my uncle raymond was a sheriff's deputy in el paso. he was the one who taught me to shoot and the responsibility and accountability that comes with owning a gun. but he also taught me what it

means to serve everyone. to be sworn to protect and serve everyone in a community. not just some people. with the tragic shooting death, you have another unarmed black man killed in this country by law enforcement. now, no member of law enforcement wants that to happen. no member of this community wants that to happen. but we've got to do something better than what we've been doing so far. if african-americans represent 13% of the population in this country, they represent one third of those who are shot by law enforcement, we have something wrong. if we have the largest prison population on the face of the planet and it is disproportionately comprised of people of color, we have something wrong in this country. republicans and democrats should be able to work together with law enforcements and members of community for lasting and meaningful criminal justice reform. >> quick follow-up to you, senator cruz. do you agree that police violence against unarmed african-americans is a problem,

and if so, how would you fix it? sen. cruz: i believe everyone right's should be protected. regardless of your race, regardless of your ethnicity. but i tell you something, i've been to too many police funerals. i was here in dallas when five police officers were gunned down because of irresponsible and hateful rhetoric. i was at the funeral in houston at second baptist church where the deputy was shot in the back of the head at a service station because of irresponsible and hateful rhetoric. just now, congressman o'rourke repeated things he knows aren't true. he stated white police officers are shooting unarmed african-american children. "the washington post" fact checked that claim and conclude congressman o'rourke was wrong. but i tell you something, that rhetoric does damage. that rhetoric divides us on race. it in flames hatred. we should be bringing people together instead of suggesting the police are risking their lives to protect all of us. turning people against the police i think is profoundly

irresponsible. rep. o'rourke: this is why people don't like washington dc. you said something that i did not say. i'm not going to repeat the slander. i'm not going to repeat the slander. this is your trick in the trade, to confuse and to insight based on fear and not to speak the truth. this is a serious issue. and it warns the truth and the facts. >> representative o'rourke, this question is for you, it's about the national anthem protest. polls show that most americans don't think the nfl players should be kneeling during the national anthem. even if they believe that they have the right to do so. but you have said there's nothing more american than protesting for your rights. what do you say to people who claim you are out of step with most texans on this issue? rep. o'rourke: i mentioned, members of law enforcement are not sworn to serve and protect only some people. they are sworn to protect and

serve everyone. those service member who put their lives on the line serving tonight in afghanistan and iraq and syria, they swear not to a man or group of people in this country, but they swore to support and to defend the constitution of the united states of america. the constitution for all of us. the civil rights marchers who took their lives into their hands crossing the edmund pettis bridge in selma, alabama. some beaten to within an inch of their lives. those who lost their lives in the deep south to the racism of america at the time. those freedom riders who took greyhound buses in the deep south using the water fountains of their choice, knowing it would end up in the mississippi state penitentiary parchment as a different john lewis. they marched not just for themselves, but for everyone. and now we have injustice in this country. two sets of criminal justice systems depending on your race,

your ethnicity and your color. the prison population is comprised of too many unarmed african-american men losing their lives in this country. to peacefully protest that injustice, nonviolently, and to call attention to that to prick the conscience of this country and those in power will finally do something. standing up not just for your right but everyone's rights in country. there's nothing more american than that. [applause] >> i'm going to have to ask again for the audience to please refrain from reacting and applause. ok? we need to get through a lot of questions here. senator cruz? sen. cruz: congressman o'rourke gave a long soliloquy on the civil rights movement. one of the reasons i'm a republican is because civil rights legislation was passed with the overwhelming support of republicans. and indeed, the dixiecrats who were imposing jim crow, who were beating those protesters were

democrats. that is why i'm proud to be a member of the party of lincoln. every human being is a creation of god that our constitution protects. but nowhere in his answer did he address the fact that when you have people during the national anthem taking a knee, refusing to stand for the national anthem, that you're disrespecting the millions of veterans, the millions of soldiers and sailors and airmen and marines that risk and fight and died to protect that flag and to protect our liberty. and to be clear, everyone has a right to protest, you have a right to speak. but you can speak in a way that doesn't disrespect the flag, that doesn't disrespect the national anthem, and i'll tell you, those civil rights protesters would be astonished if the protest were manifesting burning the flag. dr. king, that is not something dr. king stood for. he stood for justice without disrespecting the minute women who fight for the country.

rep. o'rourke: you heard senator cruz's answer. first of all he again tried to mislead by taking a peaceful protest during the national anthem to burning a flag. no one here, myself included, has suggested anyone should be doing that. he also grounded his answer in partisanship, talking about the gop being better than a democrats. i could care less about either party at this moment. it is a deeply divided, highly polarized time in our history. this moment calls for all of us. regardless of party or any other difference or race or sexual orientation. how many generations have been here or whether you just got here yesterday, we need to come together for this country that we love so much. >> and we're moving on here. the next question for senator cruz. details are still being worked out but dr. christine blasey ford may testify about her allegations of attempted sexual assault from judge brett kavanaugh. is there anything you can hear from her that would make you change your vote?

sen. cruz: absolutely. i very much hope she comes forward to testify. i publicly called for her to given an opportunity to testify. i urged my colleagues. the allegations she raised are serious and they deserve to be treated with respect. i hope she comes and has a full opportunity to tell her story in a way that is respectful. but i also think judge kavanaugh deserves a full opportunity to defend himself and let the american people listen and come to an assessment of what appened. i don't know what happened but we need to give him a full hearing. i will say more broadly than this, this issue whether it is judge kavanaugh or neil gorsuch or other supreme court nominees, reflects one of the many massive divides on policy and substance and record between me and congressman o'rourke. congressman o'rourke doesn't want judge kavanaugh confirmed. he said that before these allegations and after these allegations. he didn't want neil gorsuch confirmed. congressman o'rourke agrees with hillary clinton. he wants liberal judicial

activists on the court who will impose their particular policy. i have devoted virtually my entire life defending the constitution and the bill of rights. what of the big issue -- one of the big issues americans had before them and 26 -- in 2016 was what vision of the court do you want. i believe texans want constitutionalists on the supreme court. who will defend the first amendment and defend religious liberty. who will defend the second amendment. i would note that the justices that congressman o'rourke would insist upon like hillary clinton, are justices that are -- that would undermine and effectively write the second amendment out of the constitution. those are radical views. and they're not views consistent with the overwhelming majority of texas. rep. o'rourke: the senator has a troubling history of the kinds

of nominees that he supported. someone like jeff matier for the federal bench. someone who believes in conversion therapy, who's described transgender children as part of satan's plan. people like andrew oldham who could not say whether the landmark school integration 1954 brown v. board of education was correctly decided. people like a man who had never tried a case before. dr. ford's allegation should be investigated by the fbi. full stop. there's precedent for that. there's the right thing to do given the gravity of the accusation. but the senator is right in this regard. judge kavanaugh does not meet the bar for texas to serve on the supreme court. the state is now 50th invoter turnout. judge kavanaugh has a troubling history on voter rights rotection. judge kavanaugh has a troubling history in agreeing that roe v. wade is the decided law of the land. and in a state where you can be fired for being gay, his support for civil rights is in question. we need a supreme court justice

who will decide in favor of people and for the rights that have been established by the constitution. and in brett kavanaugh we do not have that person. >> representative, that's your time. senator cruz. sen. cruz: it's striking he didn't dispute that he supports liberal activists who would impose the policy he wants. it's not a judge's job to impose policy. he also didn't dispute he wants justices that would undermine the second amendment. let me talk for a moment about the case heller versus district of columbia. it is a landmark case that upheld the individual rights to keep and bear arms. i represented texas and 30 other states in winning a landmark 5-4 victory to keep and bear armings. congressman o'rourke wants justices who will overturn that. the dissenters in heller said no individual, no american has any right to keep and bear arms what so ever. that's a radical position. it's an extreme position. and that's what congressman o'rourke wants to see the supreme court doing.

writing the second amendment out of the bill of rights. rep. o'rourke: that's not true. >> and we're moving on here. rep. o'rourke: of course i support the second amendment. sen. cruz: in what way and what respect? and name one judge you have ever supported that would actually uphold it. rep. o'rourke: it's your job in the senate to decide if you're going to support or not support a given nominee. not in the house. sen. cruz: did you endorse hillary clinton? rep. o'rourke: that has nothing to do with it. sen. cruz: hillary promised every justice she will appoint -- rep. o'rourke: i fully support the second amendment. >> this question goes to representative o'rourke. you believe in universal background check and assault weapons ban in a very gun friendly state. a poll from quinnipiac university shows 45% oppose stronger gun laws. is texas ready for a senator who wants to roll back gun rights? rep. o'rourke: i think texas is

ready for a senator who will defend the second amendment but also ensure we can protect the lives within our lives. both senator cruz and i were able to visit with students who survived the shooting at santa fe high school. to meet with some of those parents there. students like bree who argued we should have universal background check. because it makes our communities and our states safe. we know that from state who adopted them who seen near 50% reduction in serious gun violence. fewer gun crimes committed against law enforcement, fewer boyfriends killed by their girlfriends. girlfriends killed by their boyfriends. it is supported by most people in texas, gun owners, non gun owners alike, republicans and democrats. listening to those who serve this country, put their life on the line like the vietnam veteran that i met in wichita falls, who said after the parkland shooting massacre there in that school, that that young man was better armed in that school against defenseless children than he was in the jungles of vietnam. when i listen to the emergency

room doctors who tell me that a handgun wound, if it is treated in time, will be able it save your life. but a weapon designed for the express purpose of killing people, the high impact round from an ar15 will blow a hole the size of an orange out your back. will you bleed to death before anyone can get to you. and that is exactly what it was designed to do. weapons of war belong on the battlefield, not in our schools. >> senator? sen. cruz: all of us have been horrified as we've seen these school shootings. santa fe high school is about a half hour from my house. i was home that morning when the shooting happened. i jumped in a truck and headed down there. i spent the entire time at santa fe high school that entire day with students, with teachers, with first responders, with

parents. it is horrific. and let me say as the father of two daughters there's something deeply wrong that we have these shootings. there are lot of things behind it that have nothing to do with government. it has things to do with like removing god from the public square. like losing the moral foundation of much of our society, like losing the bind of community and family. but i'll tell you that afternoon, governor abbott and i were in a hospital visiting with the young man who was shot. there are probably a dozen other students. we asked, what's the answer to this? we kept our mouth shut and listened. every one of those dozen students they said almost word for word, gun control is not the answer. they said you know what, if you take our guns, you're not going to make us safer. you're just going to mean that the killers and murderers have guns. so we asked, what do you do? the number one answer i heard from the students and parents and teachers is more armed police officers in schools to

keep our kids safe. we can make our school safer by having officers protect them. >> senator, that is your time. rep. o'rourke: we had a town hall meeting in graham, texas where i met an educator tamed holly. she's been teaching for 29 years. she understands what goes on in schools and the classroom. she's also the advisor to the clay target team. she is probably the best marksman in that community, maybe the best of anyone here today. she said from her experience in the classroom from her experience as a marksman, bringing a firearm in that classroom is not going to make those children safer. listening to rhonda hart, who lost her daughter kimberly in the santa fe shooting. she tells me bringing weapons into those classrooms would not have saved her daughter's life. it will not make us safer. thoughts and prayer will not cut it anymore. the people of texas, the children of texas deserve action. sen. cruz: hold on a second. let me be very clear. more armed police officers in our schools is not thoughts and prayers. i am sorry you do not like

thoughts and prayers. i will pray for anyone in harm's way. i will also do something about it and my first year in the senate i led the way introducing legislation that would provide $300 million in additional funding for school safety to harden our schools to put metal detectors, more police officers. unfortunately your party in the senate, the democratic party, filibustered that legislation because their only focus politically was trying to undermine the second amendment rights of law-abiding citizens. >> let's move on. this question is for you, senator cruz. the last time you stood for election was in 2016. you were the runner-up in the republican primary for president. you ran against then-new york businessman donald trump. donald trump, as you remember, dubbed you lying ted. he took swipes at your wife and father. you in turn called him a pathological liar. quite frankly, there's so many insults between the two of you, it would take the rest of this show to go through them all. but now that he's president, you

guys have become friendly. to the point where you praised him in "time" magazine. how do you respond to critics who as it relates to president trump, you've lost your dignity? sen. cruz: well, there's no doubt 2016 was an election unlike any others. there were some hard shots thrown. i tell you, my dad who's here tonight, anyone who knows me, knows my father has been my hero. heidi and my daughters, anyone who knows me knows heidi is my best friend in the world. she is in the most beautiful woman on the face of the planet. i'm blessed from god to be married to heidi cruz. now, after the election in 2016, i faced a choice. donald trump had been elected president and we had an opportunity, an opportunity to do something extraordinary. i made a conscious choice to do the job i've been elected to do, which is represent 28 million texans. i got a responsibility which is to fight for every person in

this state. and so i have worked hand in hand with the president on substance. and we have delivered remarkable victories. the biggest tax cut of generation. we've seen four million new jobs created since trump was elected. and we cut taxes and cut regulations. we are seeing record low unemployment. texans' lives are better. so yes, i could have chosen to make it about myself to be selfish and say, my feelings are hurt so i'm going to take my marbles and go home. that would have been not doing the job i was elected to. and every single day in the senate has been my job to fight for jobs, jobs, jobs, and to fight for 28 million texans. i've done that. and if the people of texas reelect me i will continue to fight each and everyday for jobs and economic opportunity for texas. >> that is your time. representative o'rourke? farmers and ranchers that i meet

wonder where their junior senator is. they are going to impose tariffs that are going to hurt texas. they wonder where our junior senator is. the conservative columnist george will on that stage in helsinki as he defended vladimir putin was collusion. if the president attacked you personally, your wife, your father, how you respond is your business. when the president atacts our institutions, this country allows a foreign power to invade our democracy is our business. we need a senator to stand up to this president. we must work with him where we can. we are still a nation of laws sen. cruz: let me say that good things. number one, congressman o'rourke invoked farmers and ranchers. i'm incredibly privileged to have the support of farmers and

ranchers across the state and the texas farm bureau have -- has endorsed my reelection. because i have been fighting for them for six straight years. he supports president obama's role. he has voted in favor of it multiple times. putting massive burdens on farmers and ranchers. he has voted in favor of the death tax, sucking farmers and businesses and small businesses into it. that is not good for farmers and ranchers. his question and it on an attack -- ended on an attack on donald trump. the modern democratic party is consumed with hatred for donald trump, that is why congressman o'rourke is the only democratic senate nominee in the country to explicitly commit to voting to impeach president trump. that is extreme. it does not reflect -- >> that is your time. moderator: representative o'rourke, you have addressed your 1988 dwi arrest numerous

times, but not this question. as the houston chronicle pointed out recently, a witness in the accident said that you try to leave the scene of the accident. did you, and should your voters be concerned about this? rep. o'rourke: driving drunk as -- which i did, is a terrible mistake for which i have no excuse for justification or defense. i can only tell you that i tried to get a second chance of my life. i was able to start a new business with my friends in el paso. i was able to meet amy, i raised three kids, i served my community at the el paso city council and i was able to represent 750,000 from my community in the united states congress. i have made the most i could with my second chance and my opportunity. what i do know is that as a

white man in this country, there is a privilege i enjoy that many african-american men and women do not. they do not have that second chance. they are forced to check that box on unemployment application forms. -- it harder for them to get a job. they are ineligible for the pell grants that would allow them to attend smu, tcu, or any institution in this area. their choices are narrowed. their options are constrained in their lives. everyone deserves a second chance. if my experience can contribute to an understanding that allows me to work with republicans and democrats alike on real and meaningful criminal justice reform, to ensure everyone is able to live to their full potential and no one's mistake defines them for the rest of their lives, that will be something good. in whatever meaningful way it is, that has come out of that terrible decision on my part. moderator: that is your time. senator? sen. cruz: i don't intend to get

into o'rourke's personal history but i will keep the focus on issues of substance on record. he introduced legislation that would make it easier for those with drug convictions to get drivers license. -- a drivers license. i think that is a real mistake. it is part of a pattern. there is a consistent pattern when it comes to drug use that in almost every single instance, congressman o'rourke supports more of it. when he was on the el paso city council, one of the leading advocates of the country for legalizing marijuana, he wrote a book about that. now, legalizing marijuana is a question which i think reasonable minds can differ. i have had a libertarian bent myself. i think it ought to be up to the states. i think colorado can decide one way. i think texas can decide another. but i'll tell you, congressman o'rourke did not stop with marijuana. he introduced and advocated for a resolution in the el paso city council calling for a national debate on legalizing all narcotics. that includes heroin, fentanyl, cocaine. and let me say, that is not, i believe, a reasonable issue on which people can disagree. i suspect he was just calling for a debate on it.

we are on a debate stage now. i will tell you i think it would be a profound mistake to legalize all narcotics. it would hurt the children of this country. that would be a serious mistake. >> senator. that is your time. rep. o'rourke: to be clear, i don't want to legalize heroin and cocaine and fentanyl. what i do want to ensure it is -- is that in this country, most states have decided that marijuana will be legal at some form, for medicinal purposes, recreational purposes, or will be decriminalized at a minimum. so we don't have another veteran in the state prescribed an opioid because the doctor at the v.a. would rather prescribe medicinal marijuana but is prohibited by law from doing that. another old woman with fibromyalgia who is not able to use medicinal cannabis because it is against the law. another african-american man, because more likely than not that is who will be arrested for possession of marijuana, to rot behind bars, and set of enjoying

-- instead of enjoying his freedom. and the opportunity to contribute to the greatness of this country. yes, i want to end the war on drugs, and specifically, i want to end the prohibition of marijuana. sen. cruz: he did not dispute that nine years ago, as an elected member of the el paso city council, he introduced and advocated for energetically, debating ending the prohibition on all narcotics. he says, he doesn't agree with that now, but that was only nine years ago. that is an issue that is personal to me. my older sister, miriam, died of a drug overdose. people all across the state of texas, 70,000 people a year are dying of drug overdoses in this country. we have an opioid crisis. i think talking about legalizing all narcotics, i think that is profoundly dangerous. it does not represent the interest of texas. moderator: that is your time. senator cruz, you get the next question. you fought for the repeal of the affordable care act. but texas has the highest rate

of uninsured people in the nation, and more than one million residents signed up through the federal marketplace this year. how do you propose addressing the health care needs of texans? senator cruz: i believe obamacare has hurt millions of texans. it was sold to the people of this country on a promise from president obama. "if you like your health insurance plan, keep it. if you like your doctor, keep it." politifact, the left-leaning organization rated that 2013 lie of the year as millions of americans have their health insurance canceled against their will. but the biggest reason people are unhappy with obama care is that it may their premiums -- it has made their premiums skyrocket. i hear from texans all around the state, "i can afford health insurance." president obama promised the average family premiums would drop $2500 a year. in fact, they have risen over $5,000 a year. when obamacare was implemented, the most inexpensive plan for a 30-year-old healthy man in the dallas area was $363 a year.

today, in this zip code, where all of us are now, a bronze plan for a 30-year-old healthy man, is about $3000 a year. a silver plan is over $4400 a year. that is going from $363 in a few years, increasing over tenfold. that is not right. what do we need to do? we need to lower premiums for everyone. how do we do that? we can protect pre-existing conditions. everyone agrees we will protect pre-existing conditions. but we also need more choices, more competition, more option so that prices drop, so young people coming out of smu are -- or coming out of schools across the country can afford health insurance, inset of facing the -- instead of facing the disaster that obamacare has done to our health care system. moderator: that's your time. representative? rep. o'rourke: i don't know how you will repeal every single word of the affordable care act and keep protections for pre-existing conditions. keep protections for victor, a son of our new friend laura lehman, who we met. victor has cerebral palsy.

has uncontrolled seizures. he is incredibly expensive medically, to keep alive. he is a medically complex child, but his life is worth just as much as anybody else's life in this country. i want to make sure we keep this pre-existing condition protections for victor. i want to make sure we improve and stabilize the affordable care act. i want to make sure to never meet a young man like joey in laredo, 29 years old, with the diabetes, now has glaucoma, and he does not have health care. the one time he did see a doctor, the doctor said you will be dead before you are the age of 40. as he gets closer to death and takes himself to the emergency rooms, the outcomes will not be as good as they would have been otherwise if we invested up front. the care will he disproportionately more expensive. i want to make sure that we also expand medicaid. this state left $100 billion on the table that could have provided care for people in the community. i would have introduced medicare as an option on the exchanges, and then get to the universal guaranteed high-quality health care for every child, every

woman, every man in this state, and every state in the union. moderator: that is your time. senator cruz: it is striking that he didn't have a word to say to the millions of texans whose premiums have skyrocketed. he talked about pre-existing conditions, but everyone of us agrees that they should be protected. indeed, when we were debating obamacare, i introduced legislation that would protect pre-existing conditions but the health and human services agency ran the numbers and found the consumer freedom amendment, allowing people to get the health insurance you want, would reduce annual premiums by $5,000 a year. we have to lower premiums. congressman o'rourke has voted 67 times to keep obamacare. he has not been there to fix the people that are getting her, -- hurt, that are forced into part-time jobs. instead, his answer is socialized medicine and it is a mistake. it would hurt the people. moderator: our next question is about trade. this goes to representative o'rourke. both of you have expressed concern over changes in trade

and tariffs and their impact here in texas. what could you realistically do to rein in president trump on trade? why should voters believe you would be more successful getting him to change course than senator cruz who actually has a working relationship with him? >> i understand the impact of this first hand in el paso, where we are raising our children. one out of every four jobs is connected to u.s.-mexico trade in our community. i understand it from listening to the people of texas. unlike the senator, i have shown up to every single county in the state, listening to a pecan grower who has seen the tariffs on his pecans go from 7% to 47%, no one is buying his pecans around the world. he said these trade wars might end, these tariffs might come down, those purchasers and those other countries will find other countries from whom to buy. his farm will no longer be sustainable anymore. when has this country ever gone to war without allies?

that is precisely what we are doing by levying $200 billion in tariffs against china and alienating the eu and canada and our traditional trading partners. this state, with its farming and ranching and producing and manufacturing and export-based economy, needs a senator who will work with the president where we can. i met with the president's secretary of commerce, wilbur ross. i met with his united states trade representative lighthizer, and this is the case i made to them. not only does this state depend on trade and we must protect those trading relationships we have, but if we are to improve nafta, our relationship with mexico, let's ensure those mexican workers have the ability to organize, to demand higher wages, which will make the united states worker more competitive. the draft i have seen so far of this latest agreement, that is included within it. so it shows is that i am able to stand up to the president where

it counts, and i am able to work with him were able do the most good. moderator: that's your time. senator cruz. senator cruz: free trade is good for texas farmers, ranchers, businesses. i have made the case to president trump directly and personally, dozens of times that we should be expanding our access to foreign markets, opening up the mexican energy markets, expanding access to canada. if you look at the eu, it was interesting congressman o'rourke reference the eu. -- referenced the eu. we have seen breakthroughs in trade with the eu that the european union is talking about sitting down with america and looking at zero tariffs. lowering their tariffs. i thought it was interesting congressman o'rourke brought up the pecan farmers. i have made the case directly to the administration that they should work on india to lower their tariffs on pecans so we can export to india. but the difference is, i made that case repeatedly to the president over and over again. i have worked hand-in-hand with the president on policy wins for the people of texas. congressman o'rourke has never spoken to the president other than call for his impeachment.

that does not suggest a relationship within the state of texas, when you are leading the extreme left wing, wanting to impeach and attack the president. that is not setting you up to have victory for the people of the state of texas. moderator: representative? congressman o'rourke: i will work with anyone, anytime, anywhere, and that includes the president of the united states. i've worked with republican colleagues to expand access to mental health care. there were half a million veterans who have put their lives on the line for the country who by law, because of the status of their discharge, are unable to go to the v.a. and see the psychologist who would save their lives. i was able to bury the differences between myself and a republican colleague who had a similar proposal. we got it passed in the house. there was a similar bill passed in the senate, signed into law by president trump. it is saving lives of veterans in the state and throughout the country right now, so whether it is veterans, service members, americans, i will stand up for everyone and work with anyone, including the president, to make

sure we do better for this country. moderator: senator cruz, this question is about texas values. you campaigned on a fact that you represent texas's values. if you look at the polls, it is a closely contested race. congressman o'rourke has a lot of support in texas. why do you represent texas values, and mr. o'rourke does not? senator cruz: six years ago when i ran for senate, i promised the people of texas i would fight every day for lower taxes, lower regulations, and more jobs. that i would fight to secure the border. that i would fight to defend the constitution of texas and i have kept that promise. that is what i have done every day in the senate for the last six years. you are right. we have a real race in the state of texas. the hard left is energized, angry, many of them are filled with hatred for president trump. we are seeing tens of millions of dollars flowing from all over the country to congressman o'rourke's campaign.

and the reason is simple. as he takes extreme left-wing positions, positions further to the left of elizabeth warren or bernie sanders, he gets millions of dollars. for example, congressman o'rourke has said he is "open to abolishing i.c.e.." abolishing the immigration customs and enforcement agency. those are his words. now, nancy pelosi has never said that. congressman o'rourke has said he would vote now today to impeach president trump. right now, here am a today. bernie sanders never said that. congressman o'rourke's positions are out of step with the people of texas. i think the people of texas, what they want -- 1000 people a day come to texas. because we understand that low taxes and low regulations produced jobs. what i hear from texans across the state is they say, whether they supported me or not, democrats will say, i did not vote for you, but you are doing what you said you would do. that is exactly what i have done. that is what i will continue doing.

moderator: representative o'rourke, texas values. congressman o'rourke: only one of us has been to each county in texas and would have an idea of what texas values are. within months of being sworn to service, your senator ted cruz was not in texas. he was in iowa. he visited every single one of the 99 counties of iowa. he went to new hampshire, south carolina. he went to the republican presidential primary states instead of being here. he shut down your government. for 16 days in 2013. too many people were getting too much health care in the united states of america. in 2015, he missed one quarter of the votes in the united states senate. in 2016, he missed half of the votes in the united states senate. tell me, who can miss half the days at work and be rehired for this aim job going forward -- be -- be rehired for the same job going forward? that is not what texans want. they don't want somebody who was

captured by corporations and political action committees and special interests. because, that is where ted cruz gets his money. our campaign is the largest grassroots campaign this state has ever seen, funded by people and only people. every single one of the counties of texas, every single day. moderator: congressman, that is your time. senator cruz: congressman o'rourke does not seem to understand that representing texas is not doing a photo op in each county in texas with reporters in tow. that it is actually standing up and fighting for the people of texas. i can tell you, in the six years i have represented texas, i have been on the ground. in west texas when the explosion happened, i was on the ground with the families of the first responders killed. when hurricane harvey hit the state come i was on the ground -- when her can harvey hit this state, i was on the ground in my hometown of houston. also in victoria, rockport, and porter aransas, beaumont, port arthur, not once, not twice, but 3, 4, 5 times on the ground with the people of texas.

when sutherland springs saw the worst church shooting in the history of this country, i was on the ground, representing texas is being there for texans. and actually standing up and fighting for texans. not george soros, not big liberal interests, but the values of the people of texas. moderator: and the next question goes to representative o'rourke. the texas business community supported the tax overhaul you voted against last year. how can you effectively represent that important constituency when you have a fundamental disagreement? congressman o'rourke: generations from now, people looking back at this moment will not be able to believe a country, $21 trillion in debt, with the greatest levels of income disparity that we have seen since the last gilded age, more than 100 years ago, would find the solution to the problem, $2 trillion in tax breaks, that disproportionately income disparity that we have flow to corporations that are already sitting on record piles of cash and the already wealthy in this country.

a tax bill written by the lobbyist for those very corporations, and in one draft, in the margins, written by those lobbyists, so their corporate bosses could see the text before the senators could vote. in the days before and after senator cruz voted for this massive giveaway to the already wealthy, he received more than $120,000 from the political action committees that represent those who benefited from these tax breaks. i believe not in investing in corporations and in special interests. i believe in investing in people. in universal pre-k where everyone has the same starting line in life. in health care, for every texan and every american, so they are well enough to be their best. the ability to attend community college or smu so you can better yourself and do better for everyone else in your life, community, and in this country. i believe in investing in broadband internet and the 50% of rural texans that today, cannot get online.

i believe in investing in people, not corporations, special interests, and political action committees. senator cruz: there is a consistency in congressman o'rourke's record. over and over, he supports higher taxes. when he was on the el paso city council, he voted three times to increase property taxes in el paso. he voted in favor of a rain tax. i don't know what that is. a tax on rain? i'm not sure. he voted in favor of a pool tax. as a member of congress, he has voted in favor of the death tax. he voted against the tax cut. this tax cut has cut taxes on americans all across texas and doubled the child tax credit. if you are a parent, it doubled it from $1000 a child to $2000 a child. that is real money. and by the way, that is refundable and in your pocket. his answer, he doesn't want to cut taxes. he wants to raise your taxes. understand what beto o'rourke is promising you. if he is elected, he will fight to raise your taxes. that is not consistent with what

the people of texas want. moderator: representative? congressman o'rourke: those six years of the city council, every year, we balanced the budget. we did not see each other as republicans or democrats. we saw each other as el pasoans with a common interest. only one of us on this stage has started and run a small business. has had to meet payroll every single week. had to go before the bank and try to get a loan to expand the business, had to hustle for new customers and make sure that we kept those who we already had, happy going forward. that required balancing a budget and understanding how to make ends meet. i want to make sure we are not giving way to corporations. that is what senator cruz would do. thanks to the contributions he has received from those political action committees. he is working for clamp down. and the corporations. and the special interests. he is not working for the people of texas. moderator: representative, that is your time. we are at the final question. we would like to end this on a

positive note, ask you to tell us something that you admire about your opponent. rep. o'rourke: senator cruz and i were both elected in 2012, we both have young children. i know how hard he works, i know how much time he has spent away from his kids, i know what a sacrifice that is to family and he is doing it for one reason, he wants to serve this country. we may have differences of opinion on what our destination might be and how we are going to get there, but i have no question that senator cruz wants to do the best for america, and he does so at great sacrifice to his family and his kids. so i thank you, senator cruz, for your public service. sen. cruz: thank you. i agree with those sentiments. i would express the very same sentiments back at congressman o'rourke. you are right, being a dad to young kids is hard. i know the sacrifice you are putting in. my girls, everyday, it is hard.

there are a lot of tears and the re are a lot of tears in your household too i am sure. that is a single hardest part of doing this. let me say beyond that, i think congressman o'rourke is passionate, energetic. he believes in what he is fighting for. very much the same sentiments. last year, i did three debates at the bernie sanders. bernie sanders believes in what he is fighting for. he believes in socialism. i think what he is fighting for doesn't work, but i think you are sincere like bernie, you believe in expanding government and higher taxes. i commend you for fighting for what you believe. and as you noted, we disagree on the outcome, but you are fighting for the principles you believe in and i respect that. rep. o'rourke: true to form. [laughter] moderator: before we bring the debate to a close, each candidate will have 90 seconds for the closing statement. let's start with you, senator

cruz. sen. cruz: in november, there will be a lot of things on the ballot. both congressman o'rourke and i will be on the ballot. but there will be more than that. jobs will be on the ballot. we have seen in the last two years, 4 million new jobs all across this country. paychecks will be on the ballots. we have seen texas employers like american airlines, southwest airlines, at&t, giving bonuses and pay raises. your 401(k) and your savings will be on the ballot. as we have seen, the pensions of millions of texans going up. texas understands a very simple formula. when you cut taxes, when you simplify the tax code, when you lift the burden on small business, it is good for texas. it expands jobs. it expands opportunity. there is a fundamental choice in this election. a choice between we are seeing -- we are seeing nationally, socialists like bernie sanders,

and indeed, congressman beto o'rourke advocating for those same policies. full on socialized medicine which by the way, they called medicare for all. let me say to all the seniors in texas, medicare, you have paid into it your whole life. you are counting on it for your health care. what they are proposing is putting every single person in this country, including illegal aliens, everyone in this country in the medicare without paying for it. that would bankrupt medicare. there is a choice for this country. there are also states that implement the policies congressman o'rourke supported, high taxes, high regulations, open borders, you look at california. it is hemorrhaging population. the cost of a one-way u-haul from california to texas is more than 300% the cost the other way around. in texas, we understand that if you get government off the backs of small businesses, texans do well.

i've fought for that for six years. i have kept my promise. and i will always stand and fight for 28 million texans. >> that is your time senator, thank you. [applause] rep. o'rourke: let me again begin by thanking smu, nbc five, dallas morning news, for making this possible tonight. let me thank everyone here and everyone watching now, who has invited me to your communities, who has invited me into your homes, invited me into your lives, into your hopes and dreams, and the very high expectations that we are together setting right now for this country. in this deeply divided, highly polarized moment, you have reminded me that before we are republicans, or democrats, or independents, we are texans, we are americans, human beings. and we're going to start acting that way. president harry truman reminded us that this country was not founded on fear.

instead, we are founded on courage. on imagination. an unstoppable determination to do the job at hand. i have never heard a better description than that one for the people of texas i met in each of the 254 counties. we are not running against anyone. we are not running against another political party. we are running for this country. by and for each and every single one of us. we are going to use the challenges we face, being the least insured state in the country, where the number one provider of mental health care services of the county jail system, to a state that leads the way in ensuring everyone is well enough to live to the full potential, a state where 50% of the teachers are working a second or third job just to make ends meet instead of being able to focus on children before them. we are going to be the way in having their backs and making sure we don't privatize public education money and send it to a private school. whatever the challenge is, i know that we are up to the task.

i want to thank you for inspiring me, giving me confidence and giving me hope and encouraging me like no time in my life. i'm grateful. thank you. >> thank you, representative. that concludes tonight's senate debate. we want to thank our audience, our candidates, and smu. >> some important dates to keep in mind, the last day to register to vote is october 9. early voting is open from october 22 to november 2. election day is november 6. >> thank you and good night. >> with the control of congress in question this election day, see the competition on c-span. watch the debates from key house and senate races. make c-span your primary source for campaign 2018. >> make c-span your primary

source for 2018. c-span's washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up monday morning we'll news onu the latest brett kavanagh supreme court nomination. and then former u.s. senators christopher dodd and rick santorum talk about their work the bipartisan policy task force on paid family leave. "washingtonatch journal" live 7:00 eastern on sunday morning. the substitution.